Facebook Can’t Exist Without Sharing Data: Zuckerberg on Day 2
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg will continue answering questions thrown at him by the US House.
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On April 11, Mark Zuckerberg, CEO, Facebook, appeared before the US Congress to testify on the Cambridge-Analytica privacy breach fiasco. Here are the key highlights from his 4-hour long testimony, facing questions from 54 US Congressmen and Congresswomen.
Day 2 Facebook CEO Testimony - Key Highlights
- Facebook will operate with its AI tools and workforce to reduce sharing of hate messages on its platform
- Facebook won’t exist if users don’t share content on its platform, admits Zuckerberg
- Our platform doesn’t tolerate any sort of terrorism content, says Facebook CEO
- Facebook asked to strengthen case for right to privacy for the user
- Facebook CEO questioned about his role and active understanding of its co-created platform
- Facebook asked to ease up process for non-Facebook users to delete their data
Zuckerberg believes that Facebook cannot exist as a business if users refrain from coming to its platform and sharing stuff such as photos and messages with friends. He said this in reply to a question on whether Facebook was considering changing its business model so as not to use users' data.
When Congresswoman Anna Eshoo asked Zuckerberg if he was willing to change his business model in the interest of protecting individual privacy, Zuckerberg replied saying he was not sure what that means.
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg's Testimony Comes to an End
After hearing from 54 Congressman and Congresswomen on Wednesday, the Chairman makes his closing remarks on the matter, and signs off the hearing suggesting Facebook could help other technology firms to improve their regulatory measures in the Silicon Valley.
That’s brings to an end a grueling 48-hour session with the US Senate and Congress Committee. Thanks for joining us for the live blog and stay tuned to The Quint for highlights and key updates from Day 2 of Zuckerberg's testimony.
Zuckerberg on Net Neutrality
Finally, we have Congressman Kevin Cramer from North Dakota asking Zuckerberg about his views on Net neutrality. And this is what he had to say. “When I had started Facebook, I had the option of only one internet provider. If I had Facebook as an option for a user, for something that they used, then we won't be here today,” Zuckerberg said.
That remark is unclear about Zuckerberg's stand on Net neutrality.
Congresswoman Questions Zuckerberg's Role as CEO
"You didn't know about privacy cases against your company, as the CEO?" asks Congresswoman Debbie Dingell from Michigan. "You didn't know what a shadow profile was, you didn't know how many apps were compromised," she adds.
Dingell was referring to the like and share buttons of Facebook that appear on multiple websites.
“I don't know the number of likes and shares on non-Facebook pages," Zuckerberg said.
Dingell then asks Zuckerberg how many chunks of Pixel code there are on non-Facebook pages.
"Finally, do you know if there are other fourth-party developers like Kogan who have access to Facebook data? Because I am convinced there are others," Congresswoman Dingell says.
How Facebook Identifies Hate Speech
"How do you differentiate what's hate speech and what's an accurate political speech?" asks Congressman Richard Hudson.
“It's something we have found difficult to keep a track of, but we admit the challenges we face in ensuring the right kind of content gets circulated. And we'll be working on that,” says Zuckerberg.
Here’s a look at how Facebook’s stock has performed since the start of the hearing on Day 2 in Washington.
What is Facebook's Leadership Role to Stop Terrorism
Congresswoman Brooks kickstarts the second phase of the hearing after a recess. She questions Facebook and its role in making sure the platform can stop possible terrorist activities.
"I appreciate the effort but recently I came across a video on your platform related to ISIS. How can you make a case for what you have in place?" Congresswoman Brooks further adds.
"But how are they preventing people from getting recruited by ISIS?" asks Congresswoman Brooks.
Zuckerberg reiterates: "We monitor all sorts of terrorist-centric content and make sure we flag it, if something major pops up on our radar."
Zuckerberg also makes a quick change to a statement he made a few moments ago.
Meanwhile, Acting CEO at Cambridge Analytica Steps Down
While the hearing is going on in Washington, reports indicate that the acting CEO of Cambridge Analytica, Alexander Tayler, has stepped down from his position.
He’s retaking his previous position of Chief Data Officer at the firm, to focus on the various technical investigations and inquiries, as stated by Cambridge Analytica in its statement here.
And with that, the Congress is taking another break. We’ll be back in 10 minutes with more updates from the hearing.
Facebook Not Recording Your Audio
Congressman Larry Bucshon raises an interesting point about user privacy. Is Facebook listening to you through your phone's microphone?
"We were discussing about my brother-in-law who is deceased, and later that evening his wife was able to see his photo and stuff on her Facebook page," says Congressman Bucshon.
"Does Facebook track our conversations?" asks Congressman Bucshon.
When asked if people at Facebook executive meetings are allowed to carry phones, Zuckerberg says they don’t have any policy which prohibits its employees from using their phones at meetings.
Can Facebook Exist Without Users Sharing Data?
Is it possible for Facebook to exist without collecting and selling or sharing data, asks Congressman Dave Loebsack from Iowa.
Zuckerberg is quick to point out that Facebook doesn't sell user data. But he admits that it wouldn't be possible for Facebook to exist, if people weren't willing to connect with the world, that is sharing their data with the platform.
How Facebook Holds People Accountable
"How do you make people at Facebook accountable when they make a mistake? Do you fire those people?" asks Congressman Johnson from Ohio.
He further wants to know what happened to the person who took down the Franciscan University ad from Facebook.
Zuckerberg says hiring and firing are done in the normal course of business for a variety of reasons, but he is not sure of specific instances that the Congressman has pointed out.
Too Many Processes for Non-Facebook Users to Delete Data
Congressman Lujan from New Mexico points out that if you don’t have a Facebook account, you still have to go to a Facebook page to delete your data, which Facebook has collected even though you are not a Facebook user.
He wants this process to be simplified, especially for those who don’t have an idea about what data Facebook has been holding on to, and why.
Zuckerberg says he will consult with his team on the process.
Fake News a Big Epidemic on Facebook
Congressman Adam Kinzinger has raised a pertinent point on how Facebook has been letting fake accounts put other users in jeopardy on the internet.
"Fake accounts are a big issue for Facebook and there is more we see on fake news and foreign election interference is happening as well," admits Zuckerberg.
"So, the long term solution is to build more AI tools and find patterns to ban people using the services in a way that no real person would do," says Zuckerberg.
Zuckerberg also highlights the three-step process that Facebook will be putting into practice to fix the fake news problem.
Zuckerberg Talks About Various Research Projects
"This year we did a number of research projects that showed when social media is used for building relationships, its associated with a lot of positive effects of well being," said Zuckerberg.
Strong Facebook Influence In Trump Elections
"Is it true that Facebook offered to provide dedicated campaign embeds?" Congressman John Sarbanes asks Zuckerberg about ad campaigns for political parties.
"We offer sales support to all campaigns and specific to the Trump campaign, Facebook did offer sales support," admits Zuckerberg.
After that, Congressman Sarbanes says the Trump campaign had 5.9 million ads on Facebook, while the Clinton campaign had 66,000 ads only.
"This raises questions of whether ad approvals were appropriate, and no way did Facebook employees get access to read Trump’s campaign?" asks Congressman Sarbanes.
"We apply the same standards to all campaigns. No special approval was granted to push ads," affirms Zuckerberg.
Not Unique in Catering to Ad-Business Model
Congressman Guthrie questions Zuckerberg, asking if Facebook is the only one running its business around ads. Zuckerberg says, they’re not the only one doing this with data.
Tracking What People Are Buying
"You can track what people are buying, correct?" asks Congresswoman Kathy Castor. "Facebook tracks data about where users travel, after all that's the business you're in," she adds.
"The primary way Facebook works is, the user gives their content to us, and thereby giving us access to what they do," says Zuckerberg.
However, he wasn’t quite given a chance to put forward his point of view by the Congresswoman.
Don't Favour Censorship in Anyway
Beginning after the break, Congressman Lance says he doesn’t favour censorship of content as long as it doesn’t support hatred, terrorism and violence, referring to some content that Facebook allegedly took down.
"We might have made content review mistakes earlier, but there are a lot of people elsewhere that think we have good content moderation, including liberal content," says Zuckerberg.
A Brief Recess
That’s the first break from the hearing on Day 2. We’ll be back in five minutes from now with more updates.
After a five-hour long gruelling session for Mark Zuckerberg, CEO, Facebook on Tuesday, Day 2 of his testimony to US Congress is set to begin. Today’s hearing on ‘Transparency and Use of Private Data’ will be held before the US House – Energy and Commerce Committee.
The hearing begins at 7:30PM (IST) and is likely to bring out more information on Facebook and its handling of user data.
The Committee has already listed out the questions that Zuckerberg will be asked to respond to. Here’s the full copy of the statement. You can stay tuned to our live blog and get access to the live coverage of the hearing here.
Cambridge Analytica Breach Not Similar to Obama Elections in 2012
"Is the Cambridge Analytica episode similar to what happened with the Obama elections in 2012?" asks Congressman Gregg Harper.
"No," says Zuckerberg, highlighting the difference in how Kogan used Facebook’s data breaching its policies compared to Obama's campaign. "The election process didn’t involve similar data breaches," Zuckerberg adds.
"Like all app developers Aleksandr Kogan requested and gained access to information from people who wanted to download his app. Under the Facebook policy of 2013, if CA has developed the 'thisisyourdigitallife' app they would have had access to the same data as Kogan, would that be correct?" asks Congressman Harper.
"Congressman, that’s correct and any different developer could have built that app," admits Zuckerberg.
Facebook Being Responsible About Content
"Do you think Facebook has unique responsibility regarding censorship of the content that's circulated on its platform? And are you doing something about it," asks Congresswoman McMorris Rodgers from Washington.
Zuckerberg says that Facebook strongly believes in keeping a check on the kind of content that is shared on its platform and measures are being put in place to curb further problems even more, especially for content from outside of the United States.
State of Investigation over Cambridge Analytica
Congressman Bob Latta from Ohio asks Zuckerberg about how many apps there are on Facebook that will have to be investigated.
Zuckerberg said there are tens of thousands of apps. "We are going to bring in third party auditors to go through the apps," he adds.
When further questioned on how long the process will take, Zuckerberg said: "It is going to take many months and it will be an expensive process with a lot of auditors. One of the big lessons we have learned is we cannot just take developers word for it, that they won’t share data."
Zuckerberg Unsure About Facebook's App Review Process
"Our process was not stringent enough to catch the people who were stealing users data," Zuckerberg said to Congressman Doyle from Pennsylvania.
Congressman Doyle points out that there have been consent questions about Facebook's 20-year decree with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) since 2011.
"Despite this decree, you worked with developers without restricting data access," says Congressman Doyle.
Sharing his views, Zuckerberg said that Facebook has a review process of apps. But its process was not robust enough to catch a developer who worked outside of its systems.
Facebook Tracking Users When They Are Logged-Off?
Congressman Steve Scalise from Louisiana questions Zuckerberg on how Facebook tracks users even when they are logged off.
"Is the data that's meant for security purposes, also used for business by Facebook?" he asks.
"Did a Facebook algorithm affect the bias in conservative content vs liberal content on Facebook?" he adds.
Zuckerberg says that he will clarify later on the matter.
Congresswoman DeGette Grills Facebook CEO
"We have been relying on self-regulation of companies like yours but look where that has brought us today. I want to ask some quick questions to you," says Congresswoman Ms DeGette.
"At the end of 2017, Facebook had a total shareholder equity of over $74 billion, correct?" she asks.
Zuckerberg says yes.
"Since the revelations of CA, Facebook hasn't seen many users deactivating their accounts, correct?" she asks.
Zuckerberg says yes.
"Were you charged a financial penalty in the FTC case?" she asks.
Zuckerberg isn't sure.
Facebook's Methods to Curb Spread of Hate Messages
"Do you have mechanism in place to inform government whenever Facebook has been used to interfere in political matters," asks Congressman Eliot Engel from New York.
Zuckerberg Admits Facebook Tracks Data of Users Not Signed In.
"We provide an ad network for third party apps to use and make money. So for that we also collect information so that those ads can work on those websites," Zuckerberg claims.
Zuckerberg Answers Questions on Surveillance on Facebook
What is the difference between surveillance and what Facebook does, asks Congressman Bobby Rush from Illinois.
Is There Competition for Facebook?
Congressman Fred Upton asks if Facebook sees any company out there as its competition.
Facebook Taking Action Against Conservative Bloggers
Vice Chairman Barton asks Zuckerberg as to why Facebook has been limiting access to conservative bloggers when they posed no danger to people?
Answering this, Zuckerberg admits that his team had made an enforcement error in this case, and they even reached out to the particular community to fix the issue.
He also adds that, users are given the freedom to share their opinions, but after recent incidents Facebook and team will be working to prevent such issues.
Do Users Know What's Happening at Facebook?
Congressman Frank Pallone questions Zuckerberg whether Facebook’s policies are transparent to users, and if they are doing everything to limit the amount of data which is shared.
"Users were always given the option to sign into different apps within Facebook, which we felt expanded Facebook’s scope to beyond connecting with people," says Zuckerberg.
"But after we realised such applications were being misused, we decided to limit the role such platforms had on Facebook," admits Zuckerberg, answering Congressman Pallone’s set of questions.
Is Facebook a Media Company?
Chairman Greg Walden asks Zuckerberg if Facebook is a media company. Zuckerberg replies Facebook is a technology company that caters to an assortment of services.
When asked if Facebook allows users to add their debit card details and send money, Zuckerberg admits that Facebook offers such features to users but it’s not a financial entity.
Zuckerberg also says Facebook has a responsibility for the content that people share.
Zuckerberg Makes his Statement
"We are looking to solve the problems at our end. We are getting to the bottom of what Cambridge Analytica did and informing users what information was breached," says Zuckerberg in his five-minute statement.
"When we first contacted Cambridge Analytica in 2015, they admitted to have deleted all the data. But after a recent report, we came to know that wasn’t the case," he adds.
"My top priority is to connect people across the world and serve them with various services, that matter to them most."
Specifically with Cambridge Analytica – Zuckerberg says that Facebook will do a full audit in the UK to ensure they have deleted the data.
"We are looking at every single app to see what data they use. We are making sure developers can’t access so much data. When we’ll address these challenges, we will make sure that Facebook takes care of all the precautions and adheres to all the required processes," Zuckerberg says, concluding his opening statement.
Congressman from New Jersey Makes his Opening Statement
"Facebook has become more than just a platform for sharing pictures. You opened up the platform to developers and Cambridge Analytica with no oversight," highlights Congressman Frank Pallone in his opening statement.
"We have to make sure these companies can control incidents like what happened in 2016. How did Facebook ignore the incidents that were apparent pre- and post the US Elections in 2016?" he asks.
The Day 2 Hearing Begins With An Opening Statement
Chairman Greg Walden makes the opening statement, highlighting the issue around Facebook and the recent data breach that will be broadly discussed.
"Does Congress need to evaluate if the user has a power on his/her own data?" asks Chairman Walden.
Facebook created jobs and opportunities without involving the federal government and any regulation in place. While Facebook has grown, it might not have matured as desired. What exactly is Facebook and how has the platform worked on ensuring safety of people in the United States?
What To Expect from the Hearing on Wednesday
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg's hearing with the US House on Wednesday will comprise data and privacy-related questions. Some of them have been mentioned as follows in the statement issued by the committee. Did Facebook allow the harvesting and sale of user data without their consent?
Did Facebook violate its own policies with respect to the sharing of user data? How have Facebook’s policies regarding consumer privacy changed since the launch of the Facebook platform and many more such questions are expected to be thrown towards the Facebook CEO in a short while from now.
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